Imagine sitting in the middle of a room surrounded by 20 people who violently disagree with you. That’s the premise of the popular YouTube series, Surrounded.
The debate show has garnered millions of views with its intense and polarizing debates. Its videos range in subjects from “1 Black Radical vs 20 Black Conservatives” to “1 Progressive vs 20 Far-Right Conservatives.”
Today on Commotion, host Elamin Abdelmahmoud speaks with culture critics Riley Yesno and El Jones about Surrounded and whether or not it helps facilitate real dialogue.
We’ve included some highlights below, edited for length and clarity. For the full discussion, listen and follow Commotion with Elamin Abdelmahmoud on your favourite podcast player.
Elamin: Jubilee Media is the company that makes Surrounded and they say that their goal is to “provoke understanding and create human connection.” Do you think Jubilee Media is achieving that stated goal in good faith, El?
El: The premise is a good one, in the sense of people should be having dialogue, it would be good to talk to people that maybe have different beliefs. Good faith debate is important. We can understand where other people are coming from, or at least perhaps come to some understanding. That’s not really how it plays out in reality.
It’s important to say that these aren’t random people that are selected [for the videos]. They’re all usually social media influencers. They’re people that have YouTube channels or they’re on Instagram or whatever. And so part of this is you’re going on in order to feed the further machine, right? So you go on this show and then you discuss how you went on the show on either the left side or the right side, and then you’re on other shows that talk about how you crushed this person, or so-and-so got embarrassed, or so-and-so claps back.… It’s all part of this social media ecosystem, where there’s this constant feeding of this kind of dialogue. And
I think that’s important to say because is this really a show that’s trying to get us to understand the different ideas we have, or is it really just everybody feeding their own social media channel?
Jubilee isn’t starting from a belief that people can come to a common ground, it’s actually starting from the belief that we can’t come to common ground, so therefore let’s just get entertained, right? We’re never going to agree, so let’s just sling poo at each other and laugh and get some clicks and have a good time. I think if you were starting from a place that people actually could perhaps realign their views, you would probably do something different.
Elamin: Pretending those views [you hear on Surrounded] don’t exist is not helpful for constructing a reality. Because at a certain point, you start to say, “The conversation that is happening in a lot of media organizations doesn’t cohere with the way that some people are talking in real life.” And I don’t know if Surrounded is a way to bridge that gap, or if we should be even asking Surrounded to fill that kind of role. Do we need anyone to fill the role? Riley, where do you fall on this?
Riley: Yeah, I’m with you in that. I think that there should be space to have extremely different opinions [that can] engage in a conversation together. But there’s a lot of caveats next to that and conditions that make it work. And one is that you’re having this debate in good faith, that you come in there with the willingness to be able to hear another person truly, and consider, and reflect, and then change your opinion and do all of these things.
I think there’s another episode of Surrounded where basically the person in the middle says, “Can your mind be changed about this?” And they’re like, “No.” And it’s like, so why are you here? You’re here at this point just to speak into a microphone and yell at me.
I’m a bit dubious about most modern debate formats, generally speaking, because I think that the way to have the best conversation — especially if there are high stakes and really different opinions — is you have to come from a place of curiosity, feel like you’re safe to have an opinion, and share it, and feel like it’ll be respected and heard. And the second you put a camera on there and you know that this is going to go to millions, and potentially billions, of people, I think that those conditions really go away, unless you’re a very specific person. And so, do I think that there should be a space? Yes. Do I think Jubilee’s doing it? No. Do I really think anybody’s doing? Also, probably no.
You can listen to the full discussion from today’s show on CBC Listen or on our podcast, Commotion with Elamin Abdelmahmoud, available wherever you get your podcasts.
Panel produced by Ty Callender.